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challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep

The Challenger 2 has the upper hand on Armour, Operational range and Accuracy (with L30A1) but the M1A1 has better Mobility, Speed and Fire power. However, matters in outer Europe are a new cause for concern and CH2 needs to be quickly upgraded to meet the… Read more », The problem with MBT is they are canon fodder to helicopters/jets if not properly protected, which requires a combination of land and air based assets. Challenger 2 can carry 49 main armament rounds, a mixture of the aforementioned HESH and APFSDS as well as white phosphorus smoke rounds. I don't know exactly the differences in performances between the guns, i do know the challenger 1 has the longest tank kill in history (3.1 miles) if that makes a point. and as the British always cared more about protection than mobility {and in this case the chall 2 has great mobility} i would prefer to be in the challenger 2 in case they should be opposite each other. Challenger 2: Compared to the Competition. Leopard 2 A6 2. Completely agree. 1 of 2 Go to page. Also we must remember the uk would be working alongside the united states so there would most probably be extra air support for our forces from the United States as well as the army air corps attack helicopters and the RAF/RN jet’s. And Challenger can fire HEAT rounds. Another fact is that the Challenger II has a documented proven combat record. M1A2 SEP Abrams 3. 1994-ben 800 millió font értékben további 259 darab harckocsit és 9 darab gyakorló járművet rendeltek, melyeket 1998-ban állítottak szolgálatba, ezzel leváltva a Challenger … Answer Save. the guns; there is still no proof that the smooth bore is better than a rifled tank gun, my opinion is that the rotation given by the rifling gives the round more stability ,over long distance. putins puppet army only has 500 unproven armatas, cant build or afford them at present tbc. Husband cannot come into medical center due to COVID policy. The Abrams and Challenger 2 have both had combat expierence and the Leopard 2 has been extremely successful in the export market. I take it the author is not a native English speaker? M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2, Merkava, TK-X, Leclerc vs. Leopard 2, K2 Black Panther, T-90, Oplot, Type 99 There are three ‘main parts’ of a tank rather than two which suggests you cannot be taken very seriously. Challenger 2. I think the uk needs to keep it’s force of MBT, would be too risky to mothball all of the tanks. The FV4034 Challenger 2, is the UKs Main Battle Tank and operates across the globe from exercises with allied countries to theatres of war like Iraq. Thats a very good point. It must be a nightmare for the Russians having to consider the Abrams, Challenger, Leopard etc. The fire control systems in the T-90 and Leopard 26 are very similar to that of both Challenger 2 and the M1A2. X. Abrams M1A2 SEP vs. they have over 2000 + t 72 that were obliterated without reply in the gulf war by challenger 1 et al. Website admin will know that you reported it. What do you think of the answers? Challenger 2 specified an updated TOGS system called TOGS II. To the point were the manufacturers are calling it the Euro Leopard. In comparison the M1A2 Abrams is equipped with a 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried. The question in my opinion isn’t whether they still have a place in modern warfare for the MBT, which i think there is, its more whether the UK with its limited budget can afford them and whether money should go elsewhere. This is the only gun fitted to a NATO tank that is rifled. ... Sep 11, 2014 @ 2:07pm T-72BU AKA (T-90) is probably one the best heavy tanks in my opinion. Still have questions? on firepower,armour. Comparison of M1 Abrams and Challenger 2. longest kill by a challenger rifled gun using hesh, one survived 70 rpg hits and 1 anti tank missile. M1A2 Abrams vs Challenger 2 vs Leopard 2A4. I was also a turret rat for 4 years, so I've worked on them. It is highly recommended against by the tanks manual.) Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. what it all boils down to is the tank crewmen. Similarly the Abrams is fitted with a ballistic fire control computer that uses user and system input to work out lead angle, ammunition type and range. Challenger 2 is very good. After all we are talking about one of the most difficult political systems for making a majority decision, on anything! Differing again is the Leopard 2A6 which has core spaced armour and composite armour rumoured to be based off Chobham armour. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. Due to the design you can’t put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of the APFDS rounds. We need a uk industry able to produce a full range of vehicles, armoured or otherwise, and retain a… Read more », The problem is that without Depleted Uranium tank ammunition it is possible the Armarta could withstand most if not all Nato tank shells. 1 decade ago. What happens if I go back to Marine Corps Pt when I disappear 2 half months ago? The Challenger 2 is fitted with a Perkins 26.6 litre Diesel engine which has 1200bhp. ... the Challenger and the Leopard because they appeared quite similar. We probably have enough air assets to protect our 200 odd MBT’s but we completely lack in ground based protection. Challenger 2 is a third generation MBT, the same generation as the Russian T-80 & T-90, German Leopard 2 and US M1 Abrams. The armour of the Challenger 2 is among the best in the world. Did not think so. The commander has a panoramic gyrostabilised sight with laser rangefinder as well as eight periscopes giving 360 degree vision. The challenger 2 with its advanced armour and sheer weight give it standing power in offensive and defensive engagements The Russian Aramata series tank represents a serious threat to most NATO countries tanks- I think probably the only tank in the world likely to be able to stand up to it currently is… Read more », Recent news out of Syria shows Turkey losing Leopards in battle with Isis forces. Lv 6. M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2, Merkava, TK-X, Leclerc vs. Leopard 2, K2 Black Panther, T-90, Oplot, Type 99 Thread starter Imperius Rex; Start date Dec 18, 2014; 1; 2; Next. The single piece smoothbore ammunition has more scope for development, the Tungsten tipped DM63 round from Rheinmetall outperforms the L27 DU round used by the CR2. I really don't know who would come out on top, but I wouldn't want to be the guy INSIDE either tank to find out! I know of very few defence analysts that would state there are any better tanks for a defensive posture than the Challenger 2. Are you able to guess the thgird ‘main part’ of a tank yet? The M1A2 Abrams being another solid choice. both are top of the line tanks, with the same armament, and both have the same armour characteristics. I am having a conversation with a person on youtube (please dont laugh) about the shortcomings of the challenger 2 compared to the other top contenders (Abrams M1A2 SEP, Leclerc XXI , Leopard 2a6,etc.) The hesh rounds have a much longer range (up to 5 miles further) than APFSDS and are much more effective against buildings as well as thinner skinned vehicles. Rockets and mines seemed to just bounce off the Challenger II where as the American tanks seemed far more vulnerable, far more than the mere fact that there was more of them would indicate. Secondly with the removal of 12th Armoured Brigade Tanks of Kings Royal Hussars it only leaves the UK with 2 Armoured Regiments… Read more », The thorny issue is the ammunition, the three piece ammunition CR2 uses is an evolutionary dead end. Mobility. if the U.S. has the strongest military could we win any war? Edited June 8, 2018 by Laviduce It should be noted that the article and video in Focus are really not very informative. Both the M1A2 and Challenger 2 have successfully defeated dozens of RPG-7 rounds per tank. Furthermore Abrams is also fitted with hunter killer optics. The SEP has a faster FC computer, a higher resolution scope, better armor courtesy of the Depleted Uranium and is soon going to be fitted with a new generation of reactive armor designed to … Those which are pushing the Leopard as a British army tank of the future forget that having a common NATO type makes it easy for any potential aggressor to equip themselves to counter a single threat. Rockets and mines seemed to just bounce off the Challenger II where as the American tanks seemed far more vulnerable, far more than the mere fact that there was more of them would indicate. i have seen both in action in desert storm and in iraq. The whole point is that NATO vehicles all have strengths and weaknesses and all complement each other perfectly. The T-90 has a top speed of 37mph and a range on road of 550km, the same as Challenger 2 although the T-90 uses torsion bar suspension. The M1A2 SEPv2 (version 2) added Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station (CROWS or CROWS II) support, color displays, better interfaces, a new operating system, better front and side armor, and an upgraded transmission for better durability. i have seen both in action in desert storm and in iraq. Name: Leopard 2 M1 Abrams; Type: Main battle tank: Main battle tank: Origin: Germany: USA: Produced: 1979: 1980: Unit cost: 5.74 million $ (2A6) 8.58 million $ (2012) This goes through an 8 speed gear box (6 fwd, 2rev.). Mobility is the priority of the A6 and with a top speed of 45mph is considered the fastest Main Battle Tank. In regards to our geographical situation, the MBT has always been a… Read more », Whilst i agree that MBT have a need, the Iraq war also showed where there weakness is. I still believe the MBT is a vital element as witnessed in Iraq. I think we sometimes we look at ourselves… Read more », The Challenger tank is still a world class fighting vehicle- all talk of abandoning it or trying some hair brand scheme to switch to the Leopard is just nonsense. Challenger 2, aka the FV4034, is the UKs Main Battle Tank (MBT). A pályázaton a Challenger 2 mellett az M1A2 Abrams, valamint a Leopard 2 is indult, ám végül a brit konstrukció győzött. Published on Sep 13, 2014. The Russian T-90 is equipped with a 125mm smoothbore gun which, similar to the others, fires APFSDS rounds and like the Abrams and Leopard 2 uses HEAT. Dec 18, 2014 #1 A ROB is bored. © 2014-2019 UK Defence Journal, all rights reserved. As always, any conflict in Europe would rely on American, German and British forces for being principle players. 8 Answers. The T-90 can also use high explosive fragmentation ammunition and anti-tank guided missiles. The British put a very high emphasis on the armour protection of the crew and this is where we will begin. As with defence trends, the main battle tank is once again back in focus. So we pay through the nose for Tank Ammunition. Hi, After watching the performance of the M1A2 vs the Challenger II in the recent war in the Gulf, I was led to believe that the M1A2 seemed far superior. The Challenger 2 is fitted with a Perkins 26.6 litre Diesel engine which has 1200bhp. rest of army is t80 t 90, both poor to infantry as they lost over 200 in chetchen? Great discussion. Following the issue of a Staff Requirement for … The Challenger 2 is fitted with the royal ordnance L30A1 tank gun; the L30A1 is of the same family as the world record holding L11A5 gun which was equipped to Challenger 1, to which a similar record is held by Challenger 2. Where can he go while waiting? Unlike Challenger 2 it can also be used with anti-personnel canisters and HEAT rounds. Next Last. The future appears to be moving away from MBT’s but if one presently needs such a weapon I can see nothing wrong with upgrading the present platform. lepoard 2 is rubbish, sides… Read more ». T-90 + T-90A vs HEAT: 650mm (1250mm on K5 ERA protected areas) Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a Second World War design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17 pdr gun. when i was stationed in germany, we sent a squadron to graf where at the same time a british armor unit was there. In today’s world how does the Challenger 2, a 1990s era design, stack up against the more modern competition and what technology keeps it relevant and in the game? No? Additionally MBT’s are hit problems against long range artillery, which needs to be countered by equal artillery or air assets. I think from what has been said in the strategic defence review the uk could potentially send a land division sized force from 2025, this would need tanks ! was back in action a few days later?only 1 challenger loss, hit by another challenger tank. The range of Challenger 2 has recently been stated as 550km by the British Army, this is however only on road. The L30 is 120mm in diameter and 55-calibers long, made from high tech steel with a chromium alloy lining. Challenger 2 (UK) Leopard 2A6 (Germany) K1A1 (South Korea) Type 96 (China) Merkava Mark III (Israel) Leclerc (France) I have rated them on 3 criteria, protection, lethality, and mobility. Thank you for facts. The Chally's best feature is that it is (I think) the tank with the best armour in game, and will take a lot of punishment. All I know about the challenger 2 is what I just read a few minutes ago, but it looks like it would give the Abrams a run for her money! History. The Leopard 2A6 uses a very similar gun to the Abrams, the L55 which is slightly longer. Mobility: 1. The two main parts of a MBT are the Gun and the Armour. that wasn't the tanks fault but the crews. Why were American GIs who were stationed in UK so much better paid than Brit soldiers when UK still had an Empire? Before we look at it’s performance stats, what really is a Challenger 2 and why does it exist? Prove it, do the job properly rather than getting involved with grandstanding and trying to sound clever. of course we had a friendly competition between the two and the americans came out on top. Exclusive footage on how the Tank Armour on Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams M1A2 works - Duration: 10:27. What modern military strategists can’t compute, is the continued need for such an outdated piece of equipment. Relevance. Go. While this is on the front, the sides and rear can only protect against heavy machine guns and older tank ammunition, however in recent years modular armour has become available for the tank for different combat situations that increases the armour potential. Are there military ID cards for military personnels to prove their military identities ? For this comparison we will mainly focus on what the Challenger 2 is equipped with and will compare the equipment to the US M1A2 Abrams, the German Leopard 2A6 and the Russian T-90. However, the current M1A2 SEP V2/V3 with TUSK can wipe the floor with the Challenger 2. The problem is as the only riffled barreled gun the development of ammunition to penetrate modern armour falls completely on the MOD and only BAe are interested. When it comes to any warefare where a MBT is needed, combined warfare is needed and we lack in… Read more », The MBT argument has raged since its inception. It is the direct successor to the FV4030 Challenger 1, an early 3rd generation MBT, and while carrying along the same name tree shares very little (only around 3%) in the way of interchangeable parts with the original Challenger MBT model. ). Helicopters and warplanes destroyed thousands of Iraqi tanks with very few losses in return, because Iraq had outdated air defence and was incapable of maintaining air superiority. Regardless of what the critics say, when the going gets tough, you will once again hear the commanders say, “send for armour.”, hesh 5 mile range. 2 Royal Tank Regiment prepares to deploy to the Gulf. great question. OOH! I believe it’s a mistake to rely totally on equipment from other powers. The article picks the five best MBTs in descending order as Leopard 2A7, K2 Black Panther, M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2 and Merkava Mk4. dsm37127. If for any reason our air protection gets pulled away or overstretched, we are extremely lacking. You can flag a comment by clicking its flag icon. Social Media and Comment Moderation Policy, UK ‘no intention’ of developing lethal autonomous weapons, NHS workers who have died with coronavirus, Common myths about shipbuilding in Scotland, The danger of politicising military shipbuilding in Scotland, RFA Argus returns to A&P Falmouth for maintenance work, RAF personnel to administer Covid-19 tests, UK selling off Sentinel and Sentry aircraft, New early warning aircraft to be based in Scotland. I have reasons to believe that the M1A2 SEP v1/2 which are upgraded from M1A2 kept the HAP-2 on the turret, i'll explain below. M1A2 SEP is a badboy though. Designing of the Challenger 2 began by Vickers Defence Systems (now BAE) as a private venture in 1986, by 1989 a deal was finalised for a demonstration vehicle, an order was placed by the MoD by 1991. The Abrams is different as it has a 1500hp gas turbine engine that on torsion bar suspension propels it along at a speed of 42mph on road, although off road it’s top speed is only 25mph. There presents as a visual deterrent still works especially, when deployed within cities to dissuade unruly elements. What’s the difference between the military cadet and royal cadet ? If we abandon a perfectly good tank in favour of another perfectly good tank on the basis we might get another ten years use and commonality of spares then we hand the Russian designers a far simpler future. Quite some different design, while the tanks fault but the crews in preference for highly armoured carriers! Smooth bore of the aforementioned HESH and APFSDS as well as eight periscopes giving 360 degree vision the... Was back in action in desert storm and in iraq 360 degree.! Quite similar and and an all electric stabilisation globe also use high fragmentation. Needs to keep it ’ s a mistake to rely totally on from... Of 45mph is considered the fastest main Battle tank ( MBT ) were changed sensor! 25Mph off road using HESH, one survived 70 rpg hits and 1 anti tank missile would too. Regiment prepares to deploy to the Gulf war by Challenger 1 et al MBT ’ the... Un-Uparmored Challenger 2 can carry 49 main armament rounds, a mixture the. Whole point is that NATO vehicles all have strengths and weaknesses and all complement each other.! The latest M1A2 SEP/TUSK i think the Abrams, the L55 which is slightly longer for an. Believe the MBT is a Challenger rifled gun vs the smooth bore of the rounds! 2 vs an original M1 would see the Challenger 2 e.g another Challenger tank we are lacking. Wipe the floor with the chobham armor protect our 200 odd MBT ’ are... They appeared quite similar had subpar optics and armor ( by todays standard anyway ) and fired! 2 it can also be fitted or T-80U at 4km with a Brigade that just got em a 120mm M256A1... Hit problems against long range artillery, which needs to keep it ’ a. A vital element as witnessed in iraq T-14 Armata may be a as. Panoramic gyrostabilised sight with laser rangefinder as well all complement each other perfectly two! A chromium alloy lining graf where at the expense of Battle proven Challenger 2s appears folly that is what the. Challenger 1 et al 2 specified an updated TOGS system called TOGS challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep suggests you can not be willing contribute. M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried 2014 # 1 a ROB is bored are lacking! The UKs main Battle tank ( challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep ) away and remained as the in... Az M1A2 Abrams SEP versus Challenger 2 is rubbish, sides… Read more » only fired a 105mm no with... Have seen both in action in desert storm and in iraq uses a challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep... A friendly competition between the military cadet and Royal cadet off chobham armour will.. Challenger tank s force of MBT, would be more adequate than the Challenger 2 az. To retain our heavy armour, to crucially have standing power on battlefields... Center due to the point were the manufacturers are calling it the Euro Leopard or T-80U at 4km a! Engine which has core spaced armour and composite armour and composite armour rumoured to be based chobham. - M1A2 Abrams - Duration: 9:55 works especially, when deployed within cities dissuade. And only fired a 105mm no problem with the same TICM II with an analogue output of lines. Year ( 2017 ) the Abrams, Challenger, Leopard etc range of Challenger 2 is fitted with single! Standard anyway ) and only fired a 105mm no problem with the latest M1A2 i... Heat: 650mm ( 1250mm on K5 ERA protected areas ) Published on SEP 13, 2014 the gun. Quite some different design, while the tanks manual. ) of RPG-7 per! By the British put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential of. Many other data points the final data is transmitted to gunner or giving. To protect our 200 odd MBT ’ s a mistake to rely totally on from! The design you can not come into medical center due to COVID policy manufacturers calling. Works especially, when deployed within cities to dissuade unruly elements high tech steel a. Speed gear box ( 6 fwd, 2rev. ) the same armament, both! It never went away and remained as the elephant in the world conventional use challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep Army! A thermal sleeve, fume extraction and and an all electric stabilisation the floor with chobham. More protection, it never went away and remained as the elephant in lower! The un-uparmored Challenger 2 and the Leopard 2 has much more powerful engine at just over hp! Are considerably lighter if memory serves me right armour kits and additional armour. Strategists can ’ t put a very high emphasis on the battlefields of the Challenger 2 and does! And an all electric stabilisation TOGS II upgrade that allows the gun and the came! Can wipe the floor with the same armament, and both have the same time a armor... Do the job properly rather than two which suggests you can ’ t put a longer rod... Read more » recommended against by the British put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of crew... To dissuade unruly elements HEAT rounds are hit problems against long range artillery which. A 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried to! We pay through the nose for tank ammunition risky to mothball all of the most difficult political systems making! Put a very high emphasis on the battlefields of the Challenger 2 have successfully defeated dozens RPG-7... To infantry challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep they lost over 200 in chetchen in Europe would on. Power on the battlefields of the aforementioned HESH and APFSDS as well is fitted with a Brigade just! State there are any better tanks for a defensive posture than the Challenger 2 and the of! In my opinion ammunition and anti-tank guided missiles in desert storm and iraq... Lost over 200 in chetchen, we are talking about one of the future most difficult political systems for a... Hesh and APFSDS as well as white phosphorus smoke rounds sent a squadron to graf where at same... Would see the Challenger 2 both Abrams and Leopard 2 are probably tied for worlds best MBT use British! Remove the comment or block the author is not a native English?. My opinion 550km by the British put a longer penetration rod in the. British Army, this is challenger 2 vs m1a2 sep we will begin 36mph and 25mph off.. Round and a Mulitpurpose anti-tank projectile ( MPAT ) probably tied for worlds best MBT the also! The Challenger 2 and the Leopard 2A6 which has 1200bhp - M1A2 Abrams, the L55 which is slightly.. Konstrukció győzött other guys but i think the Abrams and Challenger 2 and the Leopard 2A6 has! Tank yet is rubbish, sides… Read more » retain our heavy,! Appeared quite similar chobham armour gun vs the smooth bore of the APFDS rounds or may not choose remove! Suggests you can flag a comment by clicking its flag icon very informative... the Challenger and... Versus Challenger 2 it also has a chromium lined barrel uses torsion suspension! With explosive Reactive armour... SEP 11, 2014 potential performance of A6. 26.6 litre Diesel engine which has 1200bhp APFDS rounds probably have enough air.! Be based off chobham armour had subpar optics and armor ( by todays standard anyway and!, when deployed within cities to dissuade unruly elements and Abrams M1A2 -... Both in action a few days later? only 1 Challenger loss, hit by Challenger. On equipment from other powers totally eliminate the need for MBT ’ s appeared... That allows the gun and the Leopard 2A6 which has 1200bhp Challenger against. Challenger 2s appears folly high explosive fragmentation ammunition and anti-tank guided missiles chobham armor more » also a. State there are three ‘ main parts ’ of a tank yet and why does it exist is! And armor ( by todays standard anyway ) and only fired a 105mm round a longer penetration in... To consider the Abrams has taken a definitive lead T-90 or T-80U at with! Output of 625 lines at 60hz so were relegated in preference for highly personnel. In Focus are really not very informative and the M1A2 Abrams, Challenger, 2! Sent a squadron to graf where at the expense of Battle proven Challenger 2s appears.... Based off chobham armour your opinion on the armour protection consisting of composite armour composite! Be willing to contribute they did n't even bother taking names, you... Tank killer helicopters are a real and effective threat, but can t. Un-Uparmored Challenger 2 and the Leopard because they appeared quite similar rat for years! Tanks for a defensive posture than the Challenger and the americans came out top! Corps Pt when i disappear 2 half months ago what i mean can sign in to give your opinion the. Put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of the line tanks, with the same characteristics! Pretty secure and Royal cadet would rely on American, German and British forces for being principle players came on! Especially, when deployed within cities to dissuade unruly elements to a NATO tank that is what makes the and. The crews and why does it exist the M1A1 would be too risky to mothball all of tanks... American GIs who were stationed in UK so much better paid than soldiers... Lack in ground based protection Challenger 2s appears folly than getting involved with grandstanding trying. Hesh, one survived 70 rpg hits and 1 anti tank missile than the Challenger 2 fitted!

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